Atty Ernie Preate, Jr about the 1992 Supreme Court case of Planned Parenthood vs Casey regarding abortion control, with Frank Andrews

Newsmaker Interviews
Thursday, July 12th

Attorney Ernie Preate, Jr about the 1992 Supreme Court case of Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania vs Casey, regarding Pennsylvania's abortion control law which was amended in 1988 & 1989, and what may happen with the Supreme Court in 2018, with Frank Andrews.

00:29:09

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

And the gentleman that argued before the Supreme Court on behalf of governor Casey in the Pennsylvania law is Ernest create junior he was the attorney general at the time and he's on the phone this right now Ernie how are yeah. It now my first question is you're Republican attorney general arguing for a democratic governor how that happened when talk about a divided country now I'll crush. Well it is dead the attorney general Pennsylvania. And in charge with. That ending the commonwealth anytime the commonwealth is so glad to come there was salute foreign aid agencies are so. For example if and that make the mistake in the designing construction of the road or Favre guard rail or some such thing. And and that's get sued then attorney general not the governor's lawyers but the attorney general Pennsylvania's. Mandated. Until the end there's he'd be. I'm good enough folks and the same way when the state police are charged with beating. Undue forged. Unnecessary force attorney general's office. And then stand defend them. And the same way when their revenue. From Beijing managers. And a legislature. And it's challenged in court eternally Gerald opposite we'll include defense that legislative. And that went so I had at that time my book buffet in 1989. January of 89. I had about 200 Reuters that worked in the office of attorney general most of whom were in the civil division to defend the commonwealth. But in all the agencies. So they didn't think thing about it is that. Up eighteen with the governor and I admired for three terms as flu like the wanna county district attorney. But 77. An 83 years there and eighty 88. 87. And what selected each time by a pretty good pretty big numbers. I the point being about eight feet with a host committee or treat current. Leo we raise money for my opponent so I'll worthy opponent. And rob Democrats of course then the city that television commercials ornament. Until I ran for attorney general in eighty eighths. I was born there and submit they eat but with the democratic state chairman. At that time. He also went on television and supported mr. man and he paid money for spoke former sheriff. Everybody expected that when I took off within. January of 89. At that we would have are very contentious relationship. But but but companies are really extraordinary happened. We governor invited me over there was chambers. And within keep the step the late Jim Hagerty and any prior so rounded. Maury Myers is go around. That the mother moved very bright boy you think Siegelman. From Harrisburg. We met with right there without the water Cohen. Moon river valley and the mother of my stuff and civil or criminal deputy. And then I said that the governor that I would prefer the Bart. He congratulated me on what are getting elected and those secondary saddened I eat anything they would that might weary yet there with the very night. Pundits scored and friends until we discuss how we're going to go forward expect the jump hook I've got those 200 lawyers says there it might. So by a command to work from work third group defended the commonwealth inaugurations. And log your folks to do something wrong. Our alleged to have done something wrong and I that I I've really liked to have a lawyer Korean relationship with you. And that means that I think fighting you when you confide in me and we do what's best for the for the for the people in the commonwealth. And that requires a taboo expect for one another and respect our position then that we made it to create I'm glad that you think I'm. I think your boy what a treat you with my client that governor right they're big enough and he accepted that. And put it on so we have a working group it was setup between the office of attorney general and then he does he governor's office. And with GOP skiing information on the regular debate goes. And balloon over patent go with them and strategize with them a blow them up and ideas for the spending. The various statutes inaction. So that were enacted so. But we had filed a poor follow working relationship. That transcend politics. OK so I mean. That was where America riot and it's still lives. Or that. Now the now governor governor Casey is well respected as a man of I'm very strong pro life. Person and I guess he was that the time and still is and haven't what what what are your thoughts on that whole thing. Well the week that governor. Whereas pro life all of their life. Even with a different Democrat in the Democrat that there could be that you can stand the day. He was the man of principle. And I respected him deeply. Or of its. Putting its seven. We believe. There were all to see if people elected them no work knowing that he was a pro life governor. They elected me knowing that I was a pro life attorney general. And of course he was the most popularly elected governor in the history of the commonwealth. Well endowed deeply respected even to this day and I respect and I had a good working relationship with him. At this stage he and it's fairly is fairly NI. Our art our very much you Quinn knew what another. In science art print the money no of that is grandkids are in school at my daughter over Scranton prep. We have. Very very. Good relationship let thank god. Okay that's now could you set up the law that wind up being challenged by Planned Parenthood that that wound up going to the Supreme Court. Well bad this started under Dick Thornburgh. There was some legislation that put back in the late seventies it's. That was started I. The Republicans. And Democrats back then. Yeah. Of the legislation that was proposed. Would have originally feet so I think Thornburgh. And and anywhere and move through some legislative written some court cases then and eventually it came about it and in 1988. Amendments were proposed and an 89 a man further amendments were proposed. By the legislature. And just told the members work done by. Folks on both Republicans and Democrats in the legislature. I by the folks at the office of attorney general and I quote in the governor's office so little there was of great meeting of the minds then we decided that we recorded they have been sickened. In proposing a new law it would not he blew up ban abortion. That the court. We decided that it's low would just leave what's that going to feel good. The law of the land and it didn't appear to be being overturned there are several cases. And that occurred in the Supreme Court just prior to that the Webster case was one of them out of Missouri. And which well was reaffirmed. And so we we decided that we record to try to have the court and that was a new. Cap and light. They and that. That they eat they eat. This it's critical need standard of Rob Lowe we felt was unworkable. And the rational basis as we felt was. But also a thought back but I still work the ball. But we worked when he proposed single standard called the undue burden standard netted whether they're regulation. Capped by the legislature and signed by the governor quoted and do. Burton. I'm Betty. Alleged right to have an abortion. In our constitution. And that that's the way that they they statute should be analyzed as to whether they put. An unreasonable burden onto woman's rights that they exercised. Right through her blue and abortion. That Kate went through it was some. Bill hearing street eight words appearing in February eastern district of Pennsylvania before judge Hewitt. Had back in them but I 8990. There was testimony a lot of expert found that in the judge said the whole act that we had proposed. And enacted in Pennsylvania was unconstitutional. If went from bare to me third Circuit Court of Appeals. So went in the third circuit court of the PO. There's been good this judge will her purse and all the Viet. The or hope the statute was upheld except for the spousal notification. And so forth get out the statute. Felt. Indeed. In the third Circuit Court of Appeals. Okay now hold us all a sudden we're gonna get to the Supreme Court we got to take a break so usually don't try to push on hold we'll be right back we got to take a commercial break here 19881989. Under the leadership of governor Casey governor Bob Casey right there was up along Pennsylvania Pennsylvania alleges are amended its abortion control law. Among the provisions law requires informed consent 24 hour waiting period before an abortion minor seeking an abortion had to get consent of the parents married woman had to notify her husband and the provisions were challenged by several abortion clinics the case. Planned Parenthood vs Casey wound up going to the Supreme Court and the gentleman who argued that the lawyer she is Ernie pregame show you now Ernie beat you you start telling us Bob does doesn't illegals and challenges that went on so where did we leave off. Well and we we were herb. Were indicted in our approach flew. It was and then we'll all by what was being done in the Supreme Court in previous statements. Such as act weren. The city of Akron vs the act would center for reproductive health. Then that Thornburgh chain of 1986. Each of which applies. The strict scrutiny. Analysis. The reviewing abortion restrictions. In the week felt that that wouldn't ardent thwart the ball and we look at the food and a do within the city of Akron K. Adjustments O'Connor missing jet that they would they be a new standard. Could be used that would be any undue burden standard. And the so we focus our entire eight. Going towards capturing our vote. And and and proposing that the court adopted new undue burden now that's rather than the strict spooked in LPG very art. Would you explain that could you explain that undue burden a little bit more what does that mean yeah. All then it. If there's any undue burden standard in regard to the plate then. Unreasonable. I obstacle. In the capital woman seeking an abortion or reasonable I that the big that some reasonable. Indicate what you can proposed reasonable restriction Sunday. I'm the 24 woman's right to choose but you can't put all unreasonable and exit and within fight gates said he fights actually. Space is so weak that the that would be a much better analysis than saying what strict scrutiny here so what's the rational basis for the legislature without their. But rational think that that was one that does for the lead out. Advanced then that he had been the end judge. Oh Clarence Thomas. They thought that we should be applying rational basis. That's a look to you that there and Gallup does the fact that they were and he just said. In. And that in this particular eight our net issue. But the offense the court eventually what we can get can be quite get this for me I think that we sat around in the governor's office. And debated because we're after the third circuit upheld most of the Olympic patent statute. And that the governors the to beat the hard hit me any good birdie I want you to argue that case. I feel governor I appreciate it Pete confident that you were showing unique. And I won't do it. He wanted to show the world that this what they fight harder than. Effort that it was not something that was part of them that politics shouldn't play a role in it. That it was something that we should be approaching. And then is it as the issue of Bob debate. In a rational way. And therefore if you want and need our you have personally and I did agree to argue it. Who work for the governor. And I'd be the first row behind me out into the chambers of the United States Supreme Court when it April of 92. I argued the case. Now not the goal here was not true. Ban abortions at the goal of this law and the end though the changes the legislature. Was to put some some what you call reasonable restrictions right. That is correct there where there where there were. Now on the other hand people are guess before I get into what those greens over restrictions work. I have to tell you that my friend since Darwin the solicitor general the United States. It's that time under President Bush. And could see some of the department job within and and pose are general as well out of the meat is. Breathe a friend of the court brief in which they advent. C. Overturning of Roe vs. Wade. Eight when we argue they hate since April of ninety so. I had my argument saying that the Pennsylvania statute reasonably regulated. The the room woman's right Cilic and the position was that no role was wrongly decided that there is no right to privacy. As written by justice Blackmun in a row in 199273. That there's no such thing as a right to privacy. Where abortion. Enough. The United States constitution. All right Arianna I'm an ad I'm gonna ask you don't hold on again. I believe we have take a break for knows and he's gonna expel out what what these are reasonable restrictions that were proposed that wound up being challenged in court are when we come back on the other side WLK governor governor Robert Casey god rest his soul. Really kind of engineered restrictions on abortion and Pennsylvania. They Wanda being challenged by Planned Parenthood and one being the case that went to the Supreme Court the governor asked attorney general Ernie pre and at the time who was a Republican group Casey was a Democrat to argue the case now Ernie you're just about to explain what the restrictions were before we get into the boot the the next argument before the courts. There are certainly hasn't done Pennsylvania statute. 88 and 89. Essentially in imposed. I restriction. I'm sure is right YouTube. First of all is said that there had to get 24 hour waiting period. In which the woman seeking abortion Adam can't give her informed consent. And political hatred that dot there at the provider was the fifty information at least 24 hours before the procedure but to pay clay. Including information about how the abortion could be detrimental. To our health and about the availability of information about the eight at. Accurately there had a provision. Called spousal notification and that is the woman seeking fortune. That is sign a statement saying that she had notify. By her husband not obtain think they've put them there but just notified them. For prior to undergoing the procedure elect certainly accepting the flight budget to keep with a bid he wasn't the father of the baby. If people that he was gonna killer that virtually ever although the thing that sort. Third provision would parental consent that is that that the my ears and yet be informed consent of their feet. Once felt a little word not only that they have enough that might have been notified that Barrett. But the apparent and we give it wanted to at any given form since then. Fire people abortion procedure and it that was felt somehow impossible for a variety of reasons in my ear bitten. We go and at its bad. But Meyer goods I anonymously going to deport the quarter almonds sweet and he ate what it called it judicial fight. In blue have been sent. The above Fort Lee their same speed there was a medical emergency. That's a provision in there and added that there seated at the door any of their. It serves so light and a mother with a fake. And fit me there ware reporting requirements are afraid for fun. Agencies such as Planned Parenthood. That would let it keep records and wrecked and were met him navigated and dated. Lou provide the room and in the services but it epic it circuits and would have to be opt out. In note facility. So that's that's so bitter fight provision that when the Supreme Court we doubt that they did not play an undue burden. On the woman's right to you. Now did you have protesters did you that I mean obviously Planned Parenthood filed against you but I mean what more than everybody else are screaming that Pennsylvania was gonna overturn roe and you guys were the demo just like we're seeing in the craziness now. They're worried in fact everybody expected rove was put to be overturned because there weren't. Sponsors of so the Supreme Court at their front seven of the justice for what Republicans. And when what are the Democrats lose we're older white and he had already been in the same. I'm I'm wrote that there would say everybody believed there was no all that well with everybody to be up Al. In point of fact at the end of the day. The low blood in our and I empathize in part of L. Because of what people think that all that and such attract but think that it's ever been such as riverbend. I'll modify it back to eighteen. Do you edit modify. The city of upholding a role in all important way. First of all roll. Dictated. That that we you'll stay hot hey mister framework. Then that and the thirteenth that they have the fortunes good car in the first set try to get your. Fairly easily and then the second primary there was some restriction or third trimester it would be you know like the mother as they are rape incest life of the mother. That would replace that was specifically rich yet here in the 888. In 19920. And the plate I have I ability announced that. And so what he. The court was saying in his plurality. Opinion by the way there was no majority. Really India eight. There is this that would very very bitterly divided. The United States Supreme Court that a viability analysis said that medical science and determined that we did start that they aping. Who are in the world in the second trimester. The 22 to 48 weeks. And so they act H bed will use the viability NL a little. But for future reference when you're that she didn't place undue burden on not on no I'm from them the woman's right cheek. But right now I got to ask you trying to do and I we got to take another another break here and this is so complicated but Ernie will be right back because this is so what Ernie to create just said before we took the break. It's fascinating to me right now 2018. Everybody is screaming that if Cavanaugh is confirmed it will be the end of Roe vs. Wade mr. trichet said the back when this case was argued before the Supreme Court based on. You know vote the justices of the Supreme Court Ernie you said that everybody thought this was definitely gonna overturn row right. Absolutely. And very much and it's but it turned out. Portions of role word in fact overturned. But not the other it's because then they keep they keep portion of it. Does that fighting their woman's right to choose. They weren't too area. That's where rejected from Roche holding one with the trimester approach that was replaced by the viability and elephant. And it's important for something look simulator and secondly this pit screw up need analogy that that was employed in Roland meant that we. Rebuke. State rules and regulations and actually with the strict scrutiny standard that was rejected in favor of deep. On dual burden standard. So this is the important thing here is that it's a good chunk of whoa what is already over had already been overturned. It became became. And people just don't seem to recognize that the United States Supreme Court. Aren't recognized that and meet them they're black. And 2006. Feet eight India and the indicate. That they decided spokeswoman. How old woman calpers the teller's dad they. Hello good Kate in Malibu you could be undue burden standard so going forward and he came that coming up in the net. Eight is gonna have to be done under the AP a delicate. And and so now the other city that import here that said nobody nobody would really get that is that it in them. It ended in that in the kkk. There was a plurality opinion of only three. We re just said that there was no majority. Of the RBI did keep the but only seeing what people rallying with chuck. And just the I just disorder and a large order by judge it's even. Them all and some are. What it was that said that the current appear in Delaware a play that what I wanna be a Steward told. That includes the date it is Supreme Court. I think not. And it opinions. Are all the rocket to let abortion into it. It did not. And the opt out via. And feel the need for these people blow. Being waters chuck O'Connor Kennedy and it's been suitor. Oh well oh over wolf some fortunes of grow despite the said the bug RA. As the site this. But beat the fact of the matter is that these are the but the plurality. Those street justices. This bad. He went when they got the right to try to eat it at all within the context. I'll book all Asian or Arab friends from row. But the odd that a typical rallied opinion those three just that they own your own luck I empathize good doughnut kick split let me. Or implicitly. Fate that they still not believe that the right supplied the big or that. He pulled out the port do you subscribe to the eroded just the fight a fundamental right to abortion. Jet that was so startling that Justin Blackmon who won't throw all. And hey. I think that in net in the eight against their plurality opinion so again we say that who all has lost total came. But premises they're bought the they're trying to do framework. And it all the strict scrutiny. Standard. That it had employed. And in the bin at the net and there was no doubt that there is an eight feet at said that there's been. Or is that right to abortion. Is the in the constitution. Our daughter and are you we have about five minutes left and I got to ask you questions here. Yeah what do you what do you think about Cavanaugh as an employment what do you think about the argument that if he supported roe is going to be done and do you have any opinion on senator Casey opposing cabin just without even you know knowing about him. Well I had the let me think that that the last ones for us. But I'm disappointed thin thin thin but they think I did their bit in his father would never done that. This baby was Smart and then to have paid that they have been knee jerk reaction before. Report. We Cavanaugh judge not to even appoint me that I will always. Never appointed without even below what they stand for and what are what to file extensions are what they're what their character is. All with the content and well they're probably used to edit the page and did you get said. I am opposed to a we're political correctness treatment and I think that I'm scared everybody deserves a fair chance to be hurt if you're going to be a justice on Supreme Court he had. Yeah and I'm not give them a fair chance and I think that's wrong. Okay now what do you think's gonna happen. Well it's going to be approved. I think it does deep in a number of people in the Republican ranks are holding. Strong so far based upon what I've been able to read. And I think that he made a pick up one urging Democrat. And he'll be confirmed by. The majority of the United States that and what do you what is remains are wrong. I bet I did that that the great question I don't know it goes straight construction. India that they felt good though Justice Scalia I don't know it was a it was a good site fully every local law clerk to Justice Kennedy. They're so it Kennedy would have kind of a middle of the road guy so I don't know where he put them down and let them down right things along the lines of ten feet. That's what I think is what happens is gonna use that they're gonna say what the viability of the Phoenix and now we know medical side that the viability and appeared. Always early at sixteen weeks may mean there are only here. So what effect that that it would be better significant. Impact what the supreme court for his sake of their you'd think. The idea Philippine analysis. To determine how do to aid these restrictions. Are placed on the woman's right Julie. And as secondly. If anybody you'd think undue burden standard and they're gonna think at important here because because it. He doesn't they're they get that that we should we can recognize that the court. It in the plurality opinion. And that we have to make sure that there's some consistency. In the law. We have to make sure that that that would that the court would take if you think that the court would say you're speak and act. Don't wait allow people to think that incident to agent undeterred the court play and saw them as well Detroit in principle knotted up from migrant. For social political question is happy about small bit Harry. Under principal towards the port is obligated to make the what that means it's. We don't it's something and become except that in the law and it didn't society in your Gallup poll then this pathetic that they didn't society now. But it does it become big powerful powerful. Positioned for the court disabled we're gonna say it was starry it's like there's an up all did what I think it what you wanna see is that further whittling down. How well that my whole thing. Well Ernie I thank you for taking the hour with Ollie and eruptions gosh you know you just selection though you and I have known each other and been friends for forty years. Time goes to high forty years I think Tim may do have a good night my friend. Let you all you folks a little thank you YouTube.
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